It's organized religion that is the sham. You could always start your own cult!
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There IS a God. Religion is human made, faith was God made. Having said that, I am sorry, but God gave up on us many centuries ago. We murdered God's only Son. We turned our backs on God, and His beliefs, and did awful terrible things to each other in the name of "God". Death now, will bring NO comfort to man. As God let go of humans, Hell has taken over. And, you can't imagine what Hell really is. Give up the church. Give up being a pastor, and preach what IS real. I've tried to get others to help stop the wars, the horror of this life, to SHOW God that the Earth-- humans-- might still be worthy. It's never worked for me, and I know, humans are doomed to eternity in the terror of the afterlife. One person Could make a difference, but no one will try.
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^ NOt YOU AGAIN!!! Stop JUDGING people.. There is a bunch of us trying everyday.. "No one will listen to me.. bohoooooo" You make NO sense. You show no LOVE for your fellow man and spend your time trying to break others and making them loose hope and FAITH. YOU are the problem!!!
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^^^Plllleeeease! We killed God's son? God is all knowing, right? Why did he let it happen if he saw what was coming? As a parent would you stop the death of your child? Religion is just BS. I was an assistant Adult Sunday Schooldirector of one of the largest churches in an eastern part of another state. I left when I realized that the Southern Baptists were formed by former slave masters. Look it up online. Despite my position, every society needs a religion to keep order in society. Otherwise, if everyone believed that God does not exist, and our rights are guranteed by "our creator" Then who decides what is right or wrong? If we base truth on something other than a higher power, our rights will be decided at the end of the government's firearms.
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2^ I think we all called you out last time... You want to scare people into your believes.. You are no better.... I don't know what world you are living in but mine is GREAT! I am surrounded by loved ones! I smile everyday, I breath, I love and I am loved... If I die tomorrow it will be with a smile because I got to experience my amazing life. I am sorry that your life sucks but PLEASE keep it to yourself. And leave this pastor ALONE. He has enough issues
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^ I meant 3 ^
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OP here - to ^ 3 up - I felt everything you have felt, the only difference is that I realized that the feelings were totally natural in explanation. A feeling-based religion is worthless, since there is no evidence for a god behind the feelings.
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OP. You started one of the most interesting secret that has so many involved. I am learning a lot through all the comments. I thank you for coming out with what you believe after all these years. You must be true to yourself and it certainly appears that you did much study and much thought before coming to this conclusion. I am glad you shared your journey with us. I wish you peace.
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2^ God is just as natural as gamma rays. The existence of gamma rays could not be proven until recently, but you can be sure people FELT the effects of them! Observation of feelings is as scientific as observation of mudslides. Reason and feeling are equally important. A religion or spirituality not based on feelings is not human, think Scientology.
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^ I suggest you put down the funny mushrooms.
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You are right there is no tangible evidence that God is alive and working. When we believe without evidence that is faith. Faith is required to produce obedience.Obedience is needed to follows God's plan.If you want evidence that there is a devil, just look around. All Ten Commandments are being violated every second. Sins like murder,theft and adultery are not good for our fellow mankind. With this evidence you should come to the conclusion that there is an active devil.If there is a devil, where did he come from? Evolution can not create a devil or a spirit of a devil. So there has to be a God to create.God created Satan as an angel but the devil choose his demise.With all the design of the world and universe there has to be a designer.Another thing mankind did not kill Jesus. He laid his life down freely and most importantly was resurrected on the third day. God requires belief in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus to make it to heaven. To believe in this without tangible evidence is faith. God Loves you.
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We kill God when we kill indigenous cultures. Then we make up a sky god to fill the void.
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From the total desperation of my heart, I cried out to Jesus. To my surprise He answered. In a blink of an eye ,I was changed. His joy and peace filled my being, I was forgiven.The word became living and I was safe in His love. I surrendered. This happened 38 years ago .He is still the same today.There is a God. And you can know Him. In spite of it all, He does care for you.
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God exists.Study and prayer means nothing without faith.Evidently you have not ever really been honest with yourself.Quit putting faith in yourself and the myraid amount of fools that populate this world and trust in God Almighty.Jesus will answer.
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^ - the old "you were never a REAL Christian to begin with" crap. How horrible of you to stand in judgment.
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OP here to above ^ - thanks, but if you actually believe that "every society needs a religion to keep order in society", I don't think we'd have anything to discuss. Honestly, I think you need to do a great deal more reading about theodicy, and the superiority of secular morality.
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^^^ I do not think mankind is capable of making their own decisions collectively. Without moral laws and something higher to believe in there will be a complete breakdown in order. What will replace it is something which mirros machiavellian
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Not at all. The societies with thee most highly developed ethical systems are the most godless, in all cases (Norway, Iceland, Sweden, etc.) Morality is always better when it is a collective effort. The morality we are shown in the Bible is horriffic - that god is immoral in the extreme. Why would you follow the morals of a god like that? And if you follow a different god, how do you know what his/her moral expectations are? No, religiously-based morality always falls short.
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Yeah, there is a god and I know this because he told me he is going to kick our a$$e$ from one side of the universe to the other. We are all gonna feel the pain.
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Jesus saves, but could not save himself?
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You are living in a new Age. We are the living creation, and your beseeched evidence. The Gods of Man are symbols, interpreted, misinterpreted and back and forth If enough people (living creative mirrors of Gods/Goddesses) were involved, they could make a God out of cup of coffee, print several billion books about a man so tweaked out that he saw God. We are blessed, and have just as much capability to create our own gods. My friend, mankind will summon Gods and Demons, Creators and Destroyers because we are part of the living spirit of Creation. I mirror Image. My friend, Our destiny is uncertain, our "Gods" are our deceivers and healers. They are Men, manipulating history for social order. WE are that Powerful indeed, yet powerless against the recoil of our creations. This is the only evidence left. Monitor your choices, monitor your voice, reflect upon the past, but move forward in you pursuit of enlightenment silently. Protect and Love others. Be a voice that brings rebirth, peace, and healing. I suggest you limit yourself in an open forum, as the recoil effect stings a bit.
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OP here - absolutely not. I've never believed that, because I know what the Bible texts actually say in the original languages.
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^ when did you lose your FAITH OP? isn't that what the truth of god is based on?
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^ OP again - I think I already answered that question. Check right under the first time you asked it. But to add to my previous comment, no, according to Christian doctrine, the "truth" of God is based on his self-existence, not on human perception. The problem lies in the fact that there is NOTHING to suggest that he exists.
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^ You were a moron to believe in the first place since you knew what the bible texts say in original languages. Is there a secret here?
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^ Read more closely. I said I knew the reality about what the Bible actually says about homosexuality. That is a totally different issue than basic belief. Is there a secret? You obviously don't know much about Christians if you don't understand the danger I'm in.
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Is there a way that the Admin would forward my email address to you? I would like to talk to you on the phone. I am the 4th poster. After 10 years I am still reeling from my philosophical epiphany. It caused my divorce. Maybe if you send the admin your email address and I do the same, they will kindly help us to connect. Let me know. I will watch for your response.
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Cheer up OP, have a chocolate donut with some sprinkles.
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So, if there is no god, how do you explain the existence away the heavenly sight of large bouncy breasts which defy gravity?
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The OP is not a former preacher. He's an atheist trying to get converts. hahahaha Misery loves company.
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^ 4 up - I'd like to see your verifiable evidence now, please. And yes, I'm an ordained pastor with a legitimate M.Div. I'm not trying to get converts, I'm simply stating that there is no evidence for God. None has ever been presented.
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Actually there are thousands of ministers all over the country who are leaving the faith, and will soon be followed by hundreds of thousands of church members. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Within 20 years Christianity will be dead in America, as it is in Europe now.
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op, do you think gays are bad?
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^ all of them have come from evidentialists. Every. Single. One. Plus, your statistics are about as accurate as a Fox news story.
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^^^op, the things you seem to think "matter deeply" are fleeting and subjective....and who are you to judge another persons ethics and morality? now you bordering on having a god complex yourself lol!
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I never got "called out", whatever that means. No one has done ANYTHING to stop the problems here on Earth. Not one person here for sure. God gave us ALL choices. He is all knowing, however we were given a choice on what to do with His Son, Jesus. Read your Bible and see what happened. It's real. And, I've been doing this for decades, Man kind no longer deserves anything.
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OP again - I've read the Bible. Many times. I know what it says, the problem is that there is literally NO evidence that it ever happened. To ^2 up - where in the world did you get the idea that I'm judging someone else's ethics. You must have totally misread the post. I simply said that ethics do not originate in any god. Especially not the god of the Bible, whose ethics are horrible. He condones the murder of infants and the sexual slavery of teenage girls.
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all of you.....LIGHTEN UP. God exists. proof, laughter. you don't need laughter to survive. laughter is a gift
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NO GOD? Sheesh, if you're a pastor and that's how you feel then you are doing it wrong!!! Wise up buddy! There's a God and he's watching you.
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The True creator of the universe left this world in the control of whomever chooses to take power, and command the power of the Word. Whether you choose a righteous, or wicked path, is entirely up to you. The great spirit that breathed life into the universe is absolute Good and Evil. Their could not be one without the other. We were created in this image or framework. I like these kinds of secrets, none-the-less, seing all of the people making use of their opinions and beliefs supports the inevitable fact that religion creates fear. It is through excessive amount of fear on this planet that has allowed the continuation of our off-balanced spirit. Fear corrodes the single mind, but image what it can do in the minds and hearts of billions over several thousands of years. CONTROL the masses for an elite few!!!!! -Z
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All I know is how very big believers act. The ones who want you to know they are believers. Also always act like they are better than other people. What does that tell you.
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I bet you have helped many while you were a pastor. You had some major personal growth and now you'll need to move on to something that fits your beliefs today. Nothing is guaranteed in this life but change. Look at the good you've done and know that you touched lives in a positive way. Then begin living the new life with whatever beliefs you have now. I bet you feel a mixture of relief and despair. But you still did good.
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welcome to existentialism!!! it may seem scary at first to realize that NOTHING in life matters, but then it is very liberating and comforting. don't you want to live in a world where judgment doesn't exist? where life ends with death? i know i do :)
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OP here - I appreciate the support. However, I'm neither an existentialism nor a nihilist. I'm a realist and an evidentialist, and I think that many things do matter deeply. Like ethics and morality. And no, we do not derive our morality from God, but from evolutionary pragmatism. To 2 up^ - I appreciate the thoughts. But it will take a while to get past the fact that all the good I did was done for the wrong reasons, for the wrong person. Now, as a humanist, I will do good for the person I'm helping, period.
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^Hey OP, Being a realist is silly. Everything we can touch, smell, see, and hear...our reality...makes up less than a millionth of what we can indirectly sense with technological aid (for example the electromagnetic spectrum). Imagine all that is that can not be sensed by our advanced gadgets. In short, being a realist is like being a deist, can mean anything or nothing. Also, if we had to hold out for scientific proof and full explanations of everything before running with something that works, we'd have no television today. Check out your science history to see how many advances came from evidentialists.
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^^^Not to mention that hell was devised by man to insight fear into the masses so the church can keep the flock coming back each week and therefore keep the money collection plate full.
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God is we, and we are he, and we are all together. Pastors of all people should know you can't take these things literally.
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OP here - ^ no, there is no God, period. I finally realized that there is absolutely no evidence, and to believe in something with no evidence is the definition of insanity. Morals are decided by the community as a whole, not dictated by a creator.
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^ when did you lose your FAITH OP? isn't that what the truth of god is based on?
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OP - Faith, by definition (Heb. 11:1) is believing in things for which there is no evidence. I lost my faith when I realized that no true god would ever require blind acceptance. If there IS a god, he behaves in such a way as to have absolutely no influence on the world. All the dozens of studies into prayer show that it is completely ineffectual. Why believe in a god who has no impact on reality? All believers believe due to subjective experience, not evidential reality.
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The problem is that the people in the pews are locked into a herd mentality, and will not think for themselves. The purpose of religion is to create group cohesion and obedience. That's why so few believers will even engage the questions. It shakes them to their core.
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